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Richard Davis
at 16:20 24/7/2005
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Nice one, but what about der weg ? anywya, congrats from me.
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Joe Fuentes
at 20:3 22/7/2005
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The text was good, but i stil cant find the play ipdates. looking for it dude.
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at 10:37 8/7/2005
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ATi-The ruller
at 12:11 18/8/2003
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I think that the best card now is a 9800NP easyly turnes into a PRO one and not expansive...
And it has better picture qulity then nVidia.
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snowman
at 13:26 15/8/2003
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at first a ran my system on an gf4 ti 4200 128mb, but is was going to suck pretty badly, so i'd looked around on forums, they all said that the radeon 9800 pro is best of this moment, though geforcefx 5900 might be a bit faster, but it's graphics really are ugly compared to the 9800 pro which is really fast (easy overclock) and its graphics are truly supperior, so in my opinion ; if nvidia can't hold on the pressure of creating a good graphics card that DOES NOT CHEAT in 3dmark 2k3, then the crown will go to ati.
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Anonymous
at 5:48 10/8/2003
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What the f**k you're an idiot, you said that ATI is not winning the graphic war. Nvidia is going to release the NV38, because they know for sure that the R360 will destroy their latest offering the NV35. However ATI will release their R380 and then follow up with their mighty R420. Don't forget you dumb motherf**ker the the R300 was untouchable for almost a year.
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Anonymous
at 21:15 9/8/2003
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ATI FANBOYS ROCK BOY BAND ASS!
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Anonymous
at 21:15 9/8/2003
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Competing but not winning.
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Anonymous
at 11:58 8/8/2003
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Holy f**k ATI is still competing with Nvidia on a 150nm process, this just show how technologically superior ATI engineer are!
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Anonymous
at 15:28 6/8/2003
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i love you anonymous.
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Anonymous
at 6:8 6/8/2003
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I love Nvidiots
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Anonymous
at 22:14 3/8/2003
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Buddy below is a fool. Learn to do research.
The cost to have 16 pixel pipelines and 4 tmu's with a 512 memory controller is beyond our technology at this time. And more importantly to expensive if they could even do it. Which they can't. Not even close. The size of the chip would be monstrous. The amount of transistors on the chip would be sick. A card like that would have to be designed on less then .11nm to even be considered, as heat dissapation would be enormous. And considering TSMU and IBM are not even fabricating .11nm for GPU'S and have no immediate plans to at the moment, it DEFINATLEY won't happen by early 2004 when the R420 is scheduale for release. Try 2005. And DDR3 is not even in the plans until late 2004 if not later. And the PRICE if this imagination card you made up was fact, would cost in the high thousands of $$$ as this card would be 10 times faster then ANY professional workstastion GPU. So in other words. Buddy, you are full of shitttttttttttttttt
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Anonymous
at 21:41 1/8/2003
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R420 specs
.11 nm
DDR 3 or DRR2 512 bit memory controllers.
full 16 pixel pipeline, 4 TMU's.
8 parallel geometry engines.
800mhz core, 1.8-2gig memory speed.
pci express support.
Vertex, pixel shaders 3.0+
Highly sophisticated FSAA and AF.
196 bit floating point color all through pipelines
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Anonymous
at 21:23 1/8/2003
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Sorry. Image quality did not change from ATI's method. And it DOES matter asshole.
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Anonymous
at 21:1 27/7/2003
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I love ati fanboys
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Anonymous
at 5:38 27/7/2003
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"who's definition of cheating is being applied to the method ATI used?". the simplest rule there is. its called detecting the specific programs and changing its(gfx card) operation to increase speed. now in the general idea of playing games that in itself may be fine but to do it to what is meant to be a benchmarking program(and i am 1 that has said many time that 3dmark is pointless but that is what its meant to be) it is a different matter because the benchmarking program is meant to be testing native operations and not specifically optimised ones. so nvidia AND ati BOTH cheated. get that through your head already.as for all those "experts" they are full of shit if they claim that detecting a benchmark program is not a cheat. no doubt you will still come out with that worn out record that says "but they didnt change quality" which is totally irrelevant to what i said above. last post from me because it is plain to see to anyone with an open mind that those with closed ones will not see the truth when it hits them in the face.
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Anonymous
at 23:43 25/7/2003
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Anonymous, who's definition of cheating is being applied to the method ATI used? Because from this whole bullshit issue, it's FutureMarks determination that ATI cheated also. Not professionals in the programming industry. Only FutureMarks said they cheated. Professionals in the industry stated what ATI did was a valid optimization. 3d innovators and programmers defined valid optimizations quite clearly. The method ATI used in the defintion of optimization of computer programming is a valid optimization and coinicided with their very definition of the term.
Nothing was changed. Final outcome was the same. IQ stayed the same. Computations and end results never changed. In defining a valid optimization, what ATI did was just that. Optimization. That is the very definition of it. A technique that could be used in applications or games as the final outcome was exactly the same. What Nvidia did however changed output. Changed IQ. Changed computations. Effected the final out come. This has been proven all over the various web-sites.
Which is ironic because the standards Nvidia just listed recently(www.techreport.com) that will be in their future driver releases would make Nvidia's 3dmarks2003 "optimizations" quite invalid and ATI'S method in 3dmarks2003 very valid. Take a look and see for yourself:*An optimization must produce the "correct" image. (Nvidia Image changed:failed. ATI's image did not change: Passed) *An optimization must accelerate more than just a benchmark case.(3dmarks2003 was the only test to get a increase in performance from Det Drivers 44.03: Nvidia failed. ATI saw increases not just in 3dmarks2003 with the release of their drivers: Passed) *An optimization cannot contain a pre-computed state (static clip planes, pre-computed geometry, etc...) (Nvidia inserted static clip planes and pre-computed geometry: Failed. ATI did not. Passed.) Like i said. The majority of professionals in the 3d rendering industry accepts the method ati used fo
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Anonymous
at 23:6 25/7/2003
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It's the cheating in real games that pisses me off. And we thought this was over when ATI did the quake3 cheat. I guess not.
"the 5900Ultra is slightly faster in most real game tests,"
Not the case anymore. It's about 50-50. Which means sqaut really. lol. Since sites have been using anti dectection software the tests are about even now. And when they test games besides the ones normally tested and games that are not heavily optimized for by ati and nvidia it shows the 9800pro ahead. Not by much mind you. But ahead. Which also means sqaut. Both cards are performing about the same.
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=3x5900u&page=1&cookie%5Ftest=1
", the GeForceFX 5900 Ultra market is fairly boring as of today. We're seeing no innovation, nothing to drive the market forward, and considering that full, shipping GeForceFX 5900 Ultra cards perform at lower levels in comparison to the Radeon 9800 Pro in every test we threw at them, it's just impossible for us to recommend the GeForceFX 5900 Ultra...."
"We personally do not think that the small gain in performance is worth the extra $100 dollars over a 9800 Pro. For enthusiasts it will come down to things like image quality, driver support, and for some, which company they are loyal to (if any)."
"It's clear that the GeForce FX 5900 Ultra can't be called a single 3D king (the difference between the 5900 and 5900 Ultra is demonstrated above, so you can estimate whether the 5900 Ultra is able to outscore even the 128MB version of the RADEON 9800 PRO)"
Review sites are giving different views on both cards. half of the sites say the 9800pro is faster in most tests. While the other half is saying the 5900 Ultra is. It makes buying each card a tough one. But then this will be mute i guess as the revised 9800 and revised 9600 is coming in august or september. Or just buy the card you like. Because it looks to me as all those review sites are contridicting each other. But i would likr to see Nvidia use rotated
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Anonymous
at 21:58 25/7/2003
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"This is why we bash Nvidia. If ATI did the same thing. Then i would and others bash them too."and this reeeeally pisses me off. ati DID do the same thing(cheat). go back and read the posts before the unreal results. what do you see ? nvidia cheated, nvidia cheated. funny i dont see you bashing ati for cheating in 3dmark aswell. you are just 2 faced. let me guess ,you still go to school aswell right ? your b.s. sure sounds like a childs logic and knowledge. i happen to own both ati and nvidia cards and think they are both good. i just have a problem with fanatics for either company thinking its ok to pick on 1 when both have done wrong(now and in the past).
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Anonymous
at 21:52 25/7/2003
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"1. Nvidia 5900 Ultra = less IQ(not that noticable, but a issue)" you mean when using aa x4 and af x8 not noticable unless you take screen captures and pick over with a fine tooth comb. so reality is IQ for all real purposes the same."2. ATI 9800PRO = Same performance as Nvidia's flagship 5900 Ultra. $100 less. Better IQ.(small difference. But still there" you mean NEAR same performance. the 5900Ultra is slightly faster in most real game tests, negligable for real purposes. read 1. for IQ response. "3. Nvidia continues questionable practices in benchtests and now real game tests which is resulting in lower IQ quality for that game." unproven as yet, does this happen with the latest drivers from evga aswell ? "4. ATI is not doing this. So IQ is not effected for their cards." this is the bit that pisses me off. people are still trying to claim nvidia is the only 1 that cheated. bull. ati are just as guilty. as for cheating with real games, well you never really know 100% for every game. it does not appear that ati have cheated in any tested games though.
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DRDEATH
at 9:11 25/7/2003
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...Why would you spend money on a card that has IQ issues and the only way that company addresses those issues is by fudging drivers to increase test scores to cover up it's short comings. Wether it be shader performance or others. Something that only benefits them. Not consumers or OEM'S. And ATI cards on the other hand do not have those issues in relation to Nvidia cards. Take for example this. The 9800pro is selling for $350-$450US. The 5900 Ultra is selling for $500+ It's not taking a genius to see the disparity here. Both cards perform the same. IQ is still in ATI's camp even though it's a small margin. But the $100 price tag difference is the clincher. And on top of all that, the issues of cheating continusly in benchmarks and games by Nvidia is not helping. And other bad press of late also.1. Nvidia 5900 Ultra = less IQ(not that noticable, but a issue) 2. ATI 9800PRO = Same performance as Nvidia's flagship 5900 Ultra. $100 less. Better IQ.(small difference. But still there) 3. Nvidia continues questionable practices in benchtests and now real game tests which is resulting in lower IQ quality for that game. 4. ATI is not doing this. So IQ is not effected for their cards. Nvidia is a great company. But they need to stop this "need for speed" at all costs like 3dfx. And focus back on what made them top of the gpu industry. Quality. If not. You might see them go the way of 3dfx. Which would be bad for ALL OF US.
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DRDEATH
at 9:10 25/7/2003
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"I dont know about hte unreal cheating, and really, i dont care, the game isnt one i own, or one i care to."But MANY people do. And review sites. As this game is a standard test game... Standard 1st person shooter game... many people play and own...This is a big issue. And the Unreal 2003 engine will be used by hundreds of games in the near future the same way Unreal was used in the past. The very reason Nvidia just released guidelines about optimizations after Extremetech and www.amdmb.com discovered their dubvious optimizations for Unreal 2003. Finally the heat got to Nvidia. To do questionable optimizations in 3dmarks is one thing. To do it in a popular game like Unreal 2003 is another. This was guareented surely to bring controversy to the forfront and demand a answer. If this were some obscure game, then it would not be as bad or as noticable. But this is UnrealTournament 2003. A very, very popular game. A game that is on the same level as Quake series, DOOM series, Half-Life. C&C series. ETC. "YOu guys are arguing over differences you wont even see." I could not agree with you more. However, that's not the point here. What is happening is deliberate tampering with IQ to increase scores to make a product look better then it really is. NOW Nvidia is doing this in real games. Not just synthetic tests that are as usless as the balls on the Pope. Real games we play. And the issue comes down to this. When you are looking to buy a $200+, $400+ video card, you are looking for something that delievers on almost all levels for that price point. ($400+ is not exactly a good price, lol. But we can't escape that.) For example, when you compare the 9800pro to the 5900 Ultra, the performance is almost exactly the same. Minus the IQ issues which are hard to see. (I agree with you SSCREW) But that's just it. There are still IQ issues with the fx cards. And this is what the gaming community is saying now. Why would you spend money on a card that has IQ issues and the
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SSCREW
at 6:10 25/7/2003
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this topic started out so nicely. I jsut ajd a quick read through it, and it changed at this point basically:
Sigma
at 22:29 18/7/2003
Nvidia sucks compared to Ati and everyone knows that now.
Ati Rules Over the Nvidiot Fools Anyone who is preferring a *brand* of card ove rhte other is a f**ken idiot. yeah thats right, almost everyone here in the last few posts.
Fact = Both Ati and Nvidia cheated
Fact = You only pointing out the oppoising company cheated
Fact = Nvidia wins some tests
Fact = Ati wins some tests
Fact = Either card in any newer game, would run them oh so closely, its not funny. YOu guys are arguing over differences you wont even see. Im also through with joining htese arguements, its clear that almost nobody here gives a shit about an argument, there jsut ATI Fanboys, calling people who defend Nvidia, Nvidiots or Nvidia fanboys etc. I dont know about hte unreal cheating, and really, i dont care, the game isnt one i own, or one i care to.
FOr whoever said that shit about Nvidias drivers being shit, and not being able 2 run hl2 get a clue. ITs a flaw of hte way the games written, its optimised for hardware that dont exist yet. Or rather techniques that dont.
I jsut love these sorts of threads. Seems every man under the sun is here trying to bag out Nvidia... and whats funny, is most of them fail miserably, by lripping on flaws ati also share in.
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Anonymous
at 5:2 25/7/2003
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...THE SAME f**kING BENCHMARK THAT NVIDIA CLAIMS IS USELESS. SHOW ME WHERE ATI IS CHEATING IN REAL GAMES. Then i will bash ATI.
ATI cheated in 3dmarks. Who gives a shit. 3DMARKS2003 CHANGE NOTHING. OUTPUT WAS THE SAME. Who cares. Look to the extreme levels Nvidia went to fool OEM'S and stupid consumers like you in 3dmarks2003. Nvidia is continuing to do this false proping of it's products. Trying to make it look like it's something it's not. The only asshole that's not seeing it is you. Why do you think they just released that bullshit statement: http://www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/5421
A statement that they claim will elevate these issues. They are feeling the heat from all their lies. Like i said. Keep defending them idiot. Keep saying. "as for the problem with unreal well the official word is that it is a bug which they are looking in to...."
What did you say when you found out that the "bug" in their first cheat was not a bug, but deliberate? Did you still kiss nvidia's ass and believe it was a "bug" you f**king idiot. The blind leading the blind. You need glasses asshole.
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Anonymous
at 5:1 25/7/2003
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"as for the problem with unreal well the official word is that it is a bug which they are looking in to. is that the truth ? i dont know but neither do you f**king assholes. yet here you all are spouting "nvidia cheated" again."LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLLLLLOLOL.You are a stupid dumbass. Are for real? Nvidia said it was a bug the first time they got caught cheating also. Then we never heard anything again from Nvidia of this "bug" being fixed. Not a damn thing. And it was then proved it was no "bug" It was cheating. And yes. The official word is it's a bug. Guess who is saying that? Hmmmmmm. You guessed it. Your pals. Nvidia and their PR department. And did you take the time to notice idiot that Nvidia claims on 44.03 drivers that these give you a speed increase of 30% in the previous Det drivers. Then just like a used car salesmen's shoddy contract techniques, at the bottom of that statement in small print it says this: **performance results based upon Geforce 5600 Ultra running UnrealTournament 2003 Antalus flyby** This is called deceiving tactics and marketing to screw, you guessed it. Us the consumers. How can this be a bug when they KNEW very well that performance was only regulated to the 5600 and only in one map of UnrealTournament 2003. Yet the way it's worded you would assume that this applies for ALL GAMES. I don't see ATI doing this type of false PR bullshit and benchmark tampering the way Nvidia is doing it. Please show me where there doing it IN REAL GAMES. Please show us where they are lowering iq in games. Please show us where ATI is putting in small print that they are getting great increases in certain games only on specific cards and on specific screens. This is why we bash Nvidia. If ATI did the same thing. Then i would and others bash them too. Just like when they did the Quake3 cheat. They deserved it then. And got the bashing.
Show me where ATI is repeatedly cheating over and over again in THE SAME f**kING BENCHMARK THAT NVIDIA CLA
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Anonymous
at 4:38 25/7/2003
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"as for the problem with unreal well the official word is that it is a bug which they are looking in to. is that the truth ? i dont know but neither do you f**king assholes. yet here you all are spouting "nvidia cheated" again."LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLLLLLOLOL.You are a stupid dumbass. Are for real? Nvidia said it was a bug the first time they got caught cheating also. Then we never heard anything again of this "bug" being fixed. And it was then proved it was no "bug" And yes. The official word is it's a bug. Guess who is saying that? Hmmmmmm. You guessed it. Your pals. Nvidia and their PR department. And did you take the time to notice idiot that Nvidia claims on 44.03 drivers that these give you a speed increase of 30% in the previous Det drivers. Then just like a used car salesmen's shoddy contract techniques, at the bottom of that statement in small print it says this: **performance results based upon Geforce 5600 Ultra running UnrealTourn
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Anonymous
at 22:9 24/7/2003
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quality of AF was lowered in 3dmark 2003, neither it or AA were turned off.
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Anonymous
at 22:6 24/7/2003
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see all the little ati kiddies come arunning."You are a true Nvidiot. A asshole of sorts. A prick. Why? Because you are defending what Nvidia is doing and contiuing to do." get your facts right f**kwit. i did NOT defend nvidia cheating but i critisised thoughs you crap on that ONLY nvidia cheated. you morons keep harping on about nvidia while never saying a bad thing about ati as if they were faultless. as for the problem with unreal well the official word is that it is a bug which they are looking in to. is that the truth ? i dont know but neither do you f**king assholes. yet here you all are spouting "nvidia cheated" again. "Yes Anonymous fool, don't bash Nvidia.". get it right idiot, dont bash nvidia and NOT ati when they both cheated. dont bash either for what some people THINK rather than know. this site should be renamed to ati-games as the morons posting on here are so f**king 1 eyed its amazing they dont walk in circles, atually reading their posts they do(well there posts sure dont go anywhere).
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Serious Sam: Last encount
at 21:56 24/7/2003
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"More specifically and importantly, NVIDIA didn't address the issue of converting floating-point datatypes in pixel shader programs to 1) lower precision floating-point or, more likely, 2) 12-bit integer. The issue of pixel shader precision is likely to be a bigger point of contention going forward than texture filtering methods, especially because NV3x chips appear to be rather pokey with FP16 and FP32 datatypes." TechReport.comSeems Nvidia in it's plan to address 'optimization issues' are not planning to change it's practice with FP intergers and shader operations. Makes sense i assume when they perform slower then it's main competitor.
And Anonymous, it was not ansiotropic filtering that was running in 16bit. I don't know where you got that info from. That makes no sense at all. They are refering to floating point precision. fp16 or fp12 or fp32. This has nothing to do with ansiotropic filtering or anti alaising.
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Maple sap
at 21:46 24/7/2003
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"i have been doing that (aswell as assembling and setting up new systems) for people for years."For someone who sets up systems for people for "years" you know f**k all pal. You are just another blind wearing rose coloured glasses asshole who does not see what Nvidia is doing. EVERY f**kING WEB-SITE THAT'S NOT KISSING NVIDIA'S ASS IS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. You need to take your head out of your ass for two seconds and see the truth. If we put up with this bullshit, then they will continue to do it. Which they are. Cheating. Bullying smaller companies when they disagree with them. (FutureMarks) Forcing 3rd party driver companies(at least one that gives their cards shitty reviews) to stop making enhancing drivers for their cards. Too bad they did not target the other countless 3rd party companies also that do the same exact thing. But then again those sites don't give Nvidia's products bad reviews. Just Omega they are screwing. Selective bullying when it's convient. Which resulted in major bad press. Looks good on them. Everyone said "who cares if they cheat or optimize for a synthetic test that's b.s"
Now they are sacrificing quality in games to increase performance so they can say..."gee, look at our 50% speed increase." But they don't tell you that it lowers IQ and it's only in one game. Now if you read around the web, all of Nvidia's major driver increases of the past are in question. You know those "miracle" driver increases Nvidia was famous for? Now many in the industry are saying those results are probably "optimized" the same bullshgit way that they are doing now. Yes Anonymous fool, don't bash Nvidia. Praise what they are doing. How sad. Still blind people like you in the world. A fool is born every minute. I for one would never let you stupid ass build a system for me.
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Anonymous
at 21:29 24/7/2003
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You know Nvidia are a bunch of f**king whiners when they refuse to talk to numerous sites because they DARE to critizize their wrong doings and lies and bullshit. At least 5 sites have been targeted by them. What bullshit.
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BALOR
at 15:55 24/7/2003
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http://www.tech-report.com/Go to this link for the person who is defending Nvidia and it's tactics.......
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Anonymous
at 13:29 24/7/2003
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Oh, and by the way Nvidiot. Those quotes are from different websites. So you need to email Inquirer.net and hardocp.com and Etremetech.com and Techreport.com and beyond3d.com and 3dnewsnet.com and tell them they are also printing HALF-TRUTHS. And i dont care if it's drivers 44.03 or 44.67 or whatever. This is the 3rd time Nvidia has pulled this shit. Keep defending them you asshole. You make me laugh. The fx line of cards are flawed in shader operations compared to the r300, r350 and EVERY web site is saying this now. So it seems Nvidia is doing this to compensate.
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Anonymous
at 13:24 24/7/2003
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This is on top of running 3dmarks2003 program in FP12 and FP16, that's what you're thinking in regards to 16bit. Get it straight MR. HALF TRUTH. Two different cheats all together. FP tampering. Ansio tampering.
Nvidia ran the dx9 test in a lower floating point precision AND also disabled Ansio and Anti-alaisng by renaming the exe. like ATI did with quake3/quack test years ago. It's not the same.
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Too the Anonymous blinded
at 13:19 24/7/2003
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"oh and nvidia didnt turn off aa and af moron(more half truth) they reduced the quality used to 16bit."Actaully asshole they did. They pulled the EXACT same cheat ATI did with Quake3 3 years ago. "if you rename 3DMark03.exe to something else and run the benchmark with anisotropic filtering enabled in the drivers, test scores drop. In other words, NVIDIA appears to be using the same lame technique ATI did way back when: keying on the program's filename in order to trigger benchmark "optimizations." In this case, those optimizations appear to be a lower quality form of texture filtering than the anisotropic filtering method selected in the driver control panel. Many review sites like us benchmark cards with anisotropic filtering and edge antialiasing turned on, so these things do matter." "as for john carmack, well he can write a good game but if he thinks detecting whats suposed to be a benchmark program and changing how the card normally works is ok then he needs his head examined. he should stick to writing games as he has no idea about subjective comparisons." You know, John Carmack has been supportive of Nvidia more then anyother source during this cheating ordeal. And as for your comment "he thinks detecting..."
You need to read around as ALL reliable sources in the programming community disagree with what Nvidia is doing in regards to their so-called "optimizations"
You are a true Nvidiot. A asshole of sorts. A prick. Why? Because you are defending what Nvidia is doing and contiuing to do.
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Anonymous
at 6:2 24/7/2003
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well this has just turned in to another "lets bash nvidia with lies and half truths" thread.44.03 are not the latest drivers so complaints and pointing to posts about them is typical half truth. lets see a comparison using the latest drivers. no ? and i knew at least 1 idiot would say "ati didnt lose quality" and "john carmack said it is a valid optimisation". not losing quality is irrelevant, they detected 3dmark and hanged how it worked, thats a cheat. as for john carmack, well he can write a good game but if he thinks detecting whats suposed to be a benchmark program and changing how the card normally works is ok then he needs his head examined. he should stick to writing games as he has no idea about subjective comparisons. oh and nvidia didnt turn off aa and af moron(more half truth) they reduced the quality used to 16bit. i am through here because as i already said this is just another bash nvidia thread. infact thats what the majority of people posting on megagames are nowdays. little kids trying to think they are big by talking crap they dont have a clue about. wait until you work for a living and have to buy your hardware yourself. i have been doing that (aswell as assembling and setting up new systems) for people for years.
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Sim City
at 23:44 23/7/2003
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http://www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/5418" haven't had a chance to digest Dave's article completely, but it looks like NVIDIA is outlining some principles for "correct" driver optimizations that allow for special-casing individual executables. Dave doesn't appear to like that idea, nor would most of us. Honestly, though, I think NVIDIA is wed to this approach so long as it has silicon with unbalanced shader resources—too much integer and not enough floating point—to compete well against ATI's R3x0 chips."
More bullshit about Nvidia. They just can't stop the cheating. Then they bullshit to everyone how their method is acceptable. I don't think so you mother f**kers. I am not spending $400 dollars or more on your high-end cards to be jipped in the quality department because your shaders and image quality is not up to par with the R300, R350.
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Anonymous
at 12:14 23/7/2003
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True. But at least ATI is not f**king you with iq vs. speed.
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BOYCOTT
at 11:54 23/7/2003
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ATI IS RIPPING YOU OFF. SAME GOES WITH NVIDIA. BOTH OF THEM ARE THIEVES!!!!!!
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Anonymous
at 8:20 23/7/2003
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>because an NV35 is potentially just around the cornercorrection:
because an NV35 *killer* is potentially just around the corner
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Anonymous
at 8:18 23/7/2003
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Voodoo2 SLI rules. No DirectX9 support. No worries about running the latest games. Because for sure, you can't :-)The benefits?
Save more money. Spend more time doing more important things like eating and sleeping.... Okay, but to clarify what's REALLY going through my mind, it's because I'm just amazed (actually not really) at how fast ATI could respond to the 5900 Ultra. Insticts (more like common sense) told me that I should hold my money for a couple of months because an NV35 is potentially just around the corner. And what good advice it was. Welp, my money is on ATI next :-) Just because I had been a very happy 8500 user. And the 5600 Ultra (old) drivers (the Detonator Drivers) were pretty dissapointing.
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Anonymous
at 7:54 23/7/2003
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You know what? You keep your Nvidia cards. If you are going to spend $500+ for a video card i dont want iq loss. No way. And this is what Nvidia is doing with the fx chips to increase speed. Plain and simple. FACT. And now they have graduated to doing cheats in real games. http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=247&PageID=1 Yes they both cheated in 3dmarks2003. (From the stand point of FutureMarks) But IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE AS TO THE FACT THAT ATI DID NOT LOSE IQ WHEN DOING SO. Nor did ATI go to the extreme and insert CUSTOM clipping planes and disable FSAA and AA in those tests. And the fact that the output and end result was the exact same. That's what John Carmack and Tim Sweeney said at Beyond 3d is a valid optimization. Not what Nvidia has done. http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=6111&forum=9 And Nvidia has done the same thing again with UNREAL2003. A real game! No longer just cheating in benchmarks. Sorry. They cheated in a synthetic benchmark. (who cares, i agree) Now they cheated in a REAL GAME. (NOW I CARE AND SO WILL OTHERS)
And they are doing this just to sell more gpu's to OEM'S and less knowing consumers. True bullshit.
The 9800pro and the 5900 Ultra might give similar performance but these are the days when frame rates should mean less then iq more. Nvidia is following the path of 3dfx. Sacrificing IQ for speed. We are past those days. And the cheating nonesense Nvidia keeps doing is making this plain to see.
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imsmart
at 6:4 23/7/2003
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ok, this is how it is. if you're an ATI fan good for you if you're an nvidia fan, also good for you. if you buy the newest card.... great i mean if you have the money it doesnt matter. others will be like ohhh i bought a ati 9500 pro and made it better then a 9600 blabla ok then you dont have a lot of money and use your brain. who cares what company makes the card. they have to be compatible with the games and have some support. to see which one is faster just look in magazines they know the best and they do take tests. its so simple... that is why i am smart. write something wrong bout me and i will beat you up bitch. well greetings :)
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Anonymous
at 5:2 23/7/2003
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ben, you idiot, you need to get the new cards out there before the majority of the game makers take advantage of its features. By releasing newer and more powerful cards, it drops the prices of the old ones making them more accessible to everyone including you and your cheapass. No ones holding a gun to your head to get the lastest chip thats out nor is there a need for you to *if u dont f**ken want to*. so quit whining and upgrade your voodoo.
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Anonymous
at 4:40 23/7/2003
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some extensive testing of a 5900ultra against a 9700pro and 9800pro.http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/video/PNY_FX_5900_Ultra_1.html notice how close they are in general ? for those who for some bizarre reason want to keep on about the "speed crown" you should definatly read this.
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Anonymous
at 4:34 23/7/2003
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"And Nvidia does not have major driver problems?" - i said both nvidia and ati have driver problems. get that patch off 1 eye and maybe you will read all of what people say."fans that believe they did not cheat" - oh for gods sake give it a rest already. its been proved that BOTH nvidia and ati cheated for 3dmark 2003(which a lot of people have been saying is a pointless benchmark anyway). and if you dare say crap like "ye but ati didnt lose quality" i will slap yo in the face with a live fish. not losing quality does not negate them cheating. a cheat is a cheat.
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Anonymous
at 19:19 22/7/2003
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http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1200905,00.aspThis is a good read for Nvidia fans that believe they did not cheat or stopped cheating in driver benchmarks.
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Anonymous
at 16:8 22/7/2003
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http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=247&PageID=1More nonesense with drivers from Nvidia. Will they EVER STOP? Sacrificing IQ for a extra few frames per second. ENOUGH ALREADY! 3DFX has nothing on these guys. They are doing everything like them in their last days. It's scary.
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DM
at 8:43 22/7/2003
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i am pleasantly surprised at these last posts :) it seems there are sensible people in here at last :)well done guys, someone else on the planet who isnt a fanboy who can do nothing but swear!!
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Anonymous
at 6:27 22/7/2003
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Nvidia confirms PS 2.0 driver problems
Meltdown, showdown, decapitation
By Fuad Abazovic: Tuesday 22 July 2003, 10:23
DEVELOPERS AT the Meltdown Microsoft DirectX conference heard Nvidia make an interesting comment about its drivers.
One of the developers using FX 5900 hardware for an upcoming title tested the new shaders 2.0 and made a comment that he'd had problems with them. Apparently, some shaders 2.0 simply do not work making Nvidia's claim that this card is DirectX 9 hardware puzzling, as Pixel Shader 2.0 is one of the essences of DX 9. Subsequently, Nvidia staff at the conference agreed the shaders are not feeling very well, and that the recent drivers are quite buggy. But hey! They run Quake, UT and 3Dmark just fine. We are sure that this carelessly honest Nvidia boy will be decapitated for this statement but we are sure that this will brought much more attention to making things work in future revisions. As you might expect, there are not many ways to test these shaders as DirectX 9 games are still far away in the future. Ironically, the same shaders run just fine in ATI Radeon 9800 class hardware. And Nvidia does not have major driver problems? HL2 and now this? lol
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rolllade191
at 3:28 22/7/2003
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ok i want to say my opinion here..:
most of the shit sed by anonymous 2 posts below is really how things are these days.... i had some 3dkards to spend my money on and once there was a geforce 3 in my life. great card and no complains with the drivers. BUT, you intend to love that Nvidia product, visit their website more often, checking out the demo's, news etc. and try to put Ati in a negative position (well atleast in yer mind) i really had something like:"nVidia rules...Ati stupid`.
ok now the interesting partlike sed in this article the battle for the speedcrown is only positive for the consumer because their products lower on price faster...
with that in mind, i was out there finding myself a new card. reading much and seeying much, their was only one conclusion FOR ME. the ati 9500pro and 9700pro werent all that expensive anymore and should be allot faster than my geforce 3, also the support of dx 9 what was laggin in geforce 4 was very handy to have. their are sum more things, but they go out to MY personal taste. SO now i have an Ati 9700pro wich i normally arent a fan off. i must say that the drivers still arent what expected, and somtimes i have abit of display diff. but whats the point here guys!!!!!!??? yes, it doesnt matter anymore wehter you buy ati or Nvidia, at least on their topmodels the difference in performance with the 9800pro an 5900ultra are so close to eachother that it would hardly matter un upcomming games. if ya have 1 of them, youre the man, and after having an Nvidia card and now an Ati i can say that both companies have their plus and minus points, like i experienced myself, faster is not always better)display probs. also the 9800pro and 5900ultra have only a max of 10 to 15% performance winst over the 9700pro and 5800ultra. STOP dragging yourself into a companie!!! makes you weak, both cards are good, its only the price-performance that really matters the most..... rollade out
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Anonymous
at 3:8 22/7/2003
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ps. this is really all that matters
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Anonymous
at 22:59 21/7/2003
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and so it comes back to the same old "ati looks better" rubbish (for aa x2 yes but for aa x4 and af x8 they look so close you cant tell without looking at single frames). and "nvidia are bad for picking on omega", the drivers are their property and omega didnt have permission to alter them so get over it already. and "ati win some tests so nvidia isnt the fastest", funny when it was ati winning most(not all) you all called ati speed king, 2 faced.fact - both nvidia and ati make damn fast and good chipsets.
fact - both suffer small problems with different driver revisions, they are usually fixed in later ones.
fact - fanboys for either side will never believe the truth and just keep spouting the same lies and half truths.
fact - every thread on here is now full of a lot idiots saying a lot of rubbish which they would not have 1 clue about. they believe what they read at places like tomshardware and others(which are clearly biased if you bother to read a lot of their reviews).
final fact - ati and nvidia will swap the so called speed crown back and forth. when 1 is faster the other is working on something faster. try to believe, the truth will set you free. now go to bed, you will be late for school in the morning kiddies. :)
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Anonymous
at 22:46 21/7/2003
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peanut i will take that bet(and your money). doom3 was primarily being done on nvidia cards but they also have pcs with ati cards aswell. hl2 is beinf done on both aswell and the workaround for textures is not 100% certain for ati cards yet, just a maybe.try reading some more and you will see that valve want to use features proposed for things like pixel shaders 3.0 which NO current card supports. so why is everyone surprised they are having problems ? its their own fault for.
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Anonymous
at 22:43 21/7/2003
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"I don't think either one has any MAJOR driver issues. Especially ATi, that's just what fanboys say when they run out of facts."
you forgot that the fanboys also claim that their drivers dont have problems. tele claimed that in another thread black and blue and then retreated to bashing nvidia drivers and crap about poor omega getting picked on. boohoo
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Anonymous
at 22:39 21/7/2003
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drdeath said - "I personally believe that the speed race is not as close as it seems. You see, technically ati is already beating nvidia. Because when you combine the lack of performance and the cheating on benchmarks nvidia has done in the past, i believe this makes them a loser. I think ati is a winner because they don't lie."
see how he didnt say at cheated too ? lie by omission thats called. both companies ARE close and your statements make YOU the loser.
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Anonymous
at 20:43 21/7/2003
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"If you're in the market for a new high end videocard I'd have to suggest you get a Radeon 9800 Pro based videocard still. Overall I'd say it's faster and it costs less. GeForceFX 5900 Ultra based videocards are not as good a value (relatively) because the only difference is the slightly higher core clock speeds (450 MHz on the Ultra as opposed to 400 MHz on the FX5900 regular)."
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Anonymous
at 20:10 21/7/2003
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So why are you here BATTERD?
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BATTERD
at 20:9 21/7/2003
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Quit wastin money on Graphics Cards and buy a whore. You nerds sound like you need some lovin.
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ShitBox2101
at 17:30 21/7/2003
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I love it when people try to be cool by arguing about games that have no real importance and then cut each other throats for liking or not liking ATI. Who cares? It's not like the last company standing gets to rule the f**king world. JUst shut up and don't bitch at someone because they have conflicting opinions.
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Anonymous
at 17:12 21/7/2003
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"So for summing up which card is ‘best’ at image quality in UT2003 the 9800 Pro still stands as that card. The sharper texture quality with AF enabled plus its better AA quality combined gives the 9800 Pro its image quality edge in this game."
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Anonymous
at 14:3 21/7/2003
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ugh, HL2 does look like plastic.
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confucios
at 13:19 21/7/2003
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arguing online is like running in special alympics, even if u win... you are still retarted...
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Anonymous
at 13:16 21/7/2003
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Yo this is to a guy who said Half life 2 will not impress.... Far cry is gay and nothing special half life2 looks alot better then that plastic shit game so stfu
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_luck666_
at 7:18 21/7/2003
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I think the combined headspace at he Nvidia Corp executive branch must have widened exponetially witht the speed inrease of there cards. Nothing but a bunch of rich guys with a marketable product to bash people over the head with. Keep it up Nvidia, keep suing yer fans, keep cheating. About the best thing you can do if ya ask me. When yer snobbish, brutish activities are compounded by a major screwup( unlike the minor screwup of the 5800). People will see the clear truth.
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Anonymous
at 6:20 21/7/2003
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ok anonymous. You must be kidding right? So Nvidia wasted over 50 million on the 5800, JUST to keep ati around. What a f**king dummy you are. lol. Nvidia IS trying to wipe the floor with ati. They just can't do it you idiot. Do you know anything of business? ANY company would love to get rid of it's competiton. That way they have a monopoly. That way they are the only game in town. That way the only product people could buy would be theres. Which means more money for them.
Ya fool. Nvidia did all this cheating. Bringing out a dud card with a multi-million dollar campaign behind it, then not even releasing the card to the masses? Nvidia did this to keep ati around and did not want too "wipe the floor with them" Ok idiot.
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Anonymous
at 5:30 21/7/2003
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I believe that NVIDIA is the best.. NvIdiA Are Champs
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Martin Brits
at 0:54 21/7/2003
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I Bellieve that ATI is going to be the champions of the graphics world.
nNvidia made a big slip up at the beggining of the FX series
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Anonymous
at 23:59 20/7/2003
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to many ati fan boys its like this guys
Market share
70% nvidia
20% ATI
10% other stuff
if nvidia wanted to they could wipe the floor with ATI but by doing it this way they make a shit load more money
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Anonymous
at 21:40 20/7/2003
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9200 is faster.
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Justin
at 16:23 20/7/2003
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does anyone here know if the Nvidia NForce FX5200 is faster than the Radeon 9200, or vice versa???
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Anonymous
at 11:42 20/7/2003
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"Findings
To start with, here is an instructive story. Since the beginning of opposition of the three graphics monsters - 3dfx, ATI and nVidia, a special karma has been pursuing them for years: 3dfx are terrible snobs too arrogant even towards their fans, absolutely confident in their holiness, right of the first born and everlasting leadership, which played a bad trick to them. For the time being there, these guys have contrived to arrange no more than a single presentation, no party, no seminar and no press conference outside the USA! It was absolutely impossible to persuade them for a meeting... In the end, they changed their ways to the better... After their closing, they gave interviews here and there making up for the past lost years.
ATI is a marvelous team of technical engineers with everlastingly poor drivers and awful marketing. Just fancy their entangled numeration for products and names for endless drivers until Catalyst finally appeared. That's terrible! nVidia is the youngest, energetic and impudent a team. Their chips hit precisely to the market boiling point, and their unified driver polished to mirror reflection has turned into a symbol of the company now demonstrates exceptional performance and stability. One can't help noticing their correct and aggressive marketing and close relationships with game developers. Since the day of their inception, their slogan has been "we'll do it!". All this was lasting for years until things started changing as if through acquisition of 3dfx nVidia caught a mortal virus. The NV30 chip released by the united team "nVidia/3dfx" proved to be a failure. They are two causes to that:
the erroneous stake made on DDR-II, but we have already mentioned it and won't repeat again. Already fixed..
and secondly the new architecture of the chip implied creating a compiler for the new chip from scratch. The depleted team of Nick Tiantos failed to cope with the posed task in good time. It depleted due to the only
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Anonymous
at 11:41 20/7/2003
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"- In most tests that we conducted, ATI 9800Pro demonstrates advantages over FX5900. Let's list them: RightMark Video Analyzer, Unreal Tournament 2003, Village Mark, Codecreatures Benchmark Pro, Comanche 4 Bench, 3DMark2001 SE Pro.""While FX5800 in due time was unable to outrun Radeon9700Pro, this time FX5900 in most tests lags behind Radeon9800Pro a little bit." "RightMark Video Analyzer is a fancier of ATI cards :) That's a complete fiasco for FX5900 which hardly copes with shader operations. On the other hand, there aren't any games using shaders so far, so - it's not that awful anyway."----But when games do, like Splinte Cell, Doom3, HL2, the NV35 with the slower shader engine will run slower i assume.
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Anonymous
at 11:13 20/7/2003
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i would like the difference between hardare power(between PCs and Consoles) to be proportionate.
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radiator
at 9:41 20/7/2003
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this is getting stupid...it's almost as bad as the Intel/AMD competition... and on the HL2 DoomIII subject...Doom III looks nicer than HL2, but HL2 will have a way better story, and more advance scripting and games are never only designed for one particular card...thats just dumb...it'll be like the console thing, you're either an Xbox fan or a Gamecube fan (PS2's don't get a mention as they suck ass!) - in PC terms, you'd be either Nvidia or ATI I prefer ATI over Nvidia, mainly due to prices (as I prefer AMD to Intel for the same reasons...and the fact that Intel are like the Micro$oft of the CPU industry!)
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wdm
at 8:5 20/7/2003
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Don't buy a stupid AGP graphics card.... Haven't you heard of PCI-Express... that will be out next year
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DeQuosaek
at 6:12 20/7/2003
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I have to agree with anonymous here. I've had my 9700pro for over 10 months now and I've installed every update without a hitch. Played fine before the updates and played fine after the updates. Every single game has worked flawlessly (and I play many different games) and I haven't had a single problem with any driver related issues.DirectX9 works fine and you'll find more and more games using it. Give it time. It takes a lot of work programming these games. They can't release DX9 and the next day release games that use all the features. Every video card has issues. ATi has done well in reporting any issues and correcting them. I don't know about nVidia, but I don't think they're doing so bad with theirs either. My girlfriend has a ti4200, but she hasn't needed to update the drivers, so I can't comment on the newer ones. All the older detonators seem to work just fine though. I don't think either one has any MAJOR driver issues. Especially ATi, that's just what fanboys say when they run out of facts.
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Anonymous
at 4:29 20/7/2003
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Enough with ati drivers are crap bullshit{posted by The market is f**ked].Be specific whats the friggin problem.Thats all i hear every once in awhile tryin to knock down ati for bad drivers.Ive had my 8500 radeon for a year and a bit now and installed every driver update since then,maybe u need a lesson on how to unstall drivers,lol,,,i have'nt had a problem yet with any of them.Don't post crap like that give me some details man or are u just blowin smoke.Some of the catalyst driver perform better than others thats a gimme,but to just go out and say there crap is bull.My games still rock at high res,and my next card will be another radeon card.That just burns my a$$ when i see crap like that.Look for software or hardware conflicks instead of oh these ati drivers suck, bull...
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The Market is f**kED
at 1:35 20/7/2003
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Doom 3 and HL2 being made specifically for ATI..... Do you think ID Software and Valve are stupid? Hmm lets make software that runs beautiful on one graphics card and not that well on another and loose all those consumers who refeuse to switch cards. How moronic can you get people? This speed crown crap is to suck in stupid people for their money. Do they really care if they are the fastest? Maybe a little bit, but the money they make off of it is 1000X as important. Both ATI and Nvidia's drivers are starting to suck ass because they are pumping to release their new hardware. I myself am not to impressed with how the 40s drivers are running on my server machine with a geforce 4. Can't tell that much with a 5900 though. Maybe unified drivers are messing them up; and Catalyst.... don't even get me started on that crap. At least nvidia HAD some good drivers..... ATI couldn't find their ass with a flashlight. OOOO OOOO Directx 9.... well with that fully supported directx9 that most games don't even use nor will use for the most part, except for network play for some odd reason, they did a real shitty job implementing it in both. Drivers need work, games need work, hardware is way ahead of where it needs to be if they'd do the software right. I also find it really sad how a lot of you just come on the boards and spam about Nvidia or ATI without actually making out any points, don't you have anything better to do than try to impress people while making yourself out to be an idiot instead?
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Anonymous
at 23:26 19/7/2003
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nVidia sucks. i used to love them, but when ATI showed me how practical it is to have a high speed card at a low price, i lost all repect for those rip off nVidias. i hope they both keep at it, but ATI will definitely be my choice.
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Anonymous
at 23:20 19/7/2003
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WHER3 CAN I DOWNLOAD DA LOKI CARD AND PRINT IT OUT ON MAH PRINTAR 2 USE IN MAH ISA SLOT?!??!!11!!!!?!!?!1!11!!!1!!!!?!!11!?!!?!11!1!! WTF WTF LOL!1!1!!1!!!!!!!!1!! OMG WTF
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Anonymous
at 20:13 19/7/2003
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ATi Rules and you all know it all the truely good games that are coming out are optimized for it because even the game industry knows they make a better over all product.ATi Rules Over The Nvidiot Fools
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kiollosis
at 20:7 19/7/2003
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all i can say is my radeon 9000 pro 2 is running great still and with all the new cards comeing out so damn quick that means the new cards now will drop in 55555price quick and as soon as HL2 comes out i am getting the radeon 9600 256mb and it runs all most as fast as the 9800 at lest i think at a 375 core and 450 mem
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Anonymous
at 20:7 19/7/2003
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in response to Anon saying that a 3.2 ghz with nv35 can run doom 3 at full everything. To this i must say, your full of shit. Who cares what stuff runs doom 3 at? It may be the "greatest engine ever" but they still need to make a game based off of it. Anyhow D3 will be shown up by HL2. I meant they're slating release's soon, and will probably be out by spring 04 latest. If D3 comes out by then i'll shit myself. But i think we will be past real in 2011.
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Anonymous
at 18:42 19/7/2003
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just beause newer and better cards are coming out doesnt meen the older cards are shit. 9800 pr can still handle everything i throw at it.
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Anonymous
at 17:22 19/7/2003
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Price haven't went down yet...screw both graphic card company for ripping the consumers.
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Titus
at 14:3 19/7/2003
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I have to agree with Tele. I have read the statements Nvidia made with respect to Omega and it's driver enhancements for Detanator drivers. That they must stop doing it. Now reading this article that Nvidia wants to clarify it's postion on 3rd party driver companies is hypocritical at best. They release it's lawyers on Omega, however do not do the same for this other site that does the same thing. Then turns around and says...."it promotes third party drivers..."
Now is that 3rd party drivers from anyone BESIDES Omega? Very puzzling. Made me think a bit. So i started to look at the site Omega drivers are released from. It seems that some of there reviews have not been exactly too flattering towards the fx line of cards lately. Which to be honest is quite true and not a lie. Minus the 5900 series. Which is a decent card. The rest, the 5600, 5200 are sub-par cards for the money and performance. So it seems Nvidia has taken another stand against another site that give it's products less then flattering reviews. Just like Theinquirer.net...TechReport.com...Extremetech.com...Beyond3d.com. Those sites have been shunned by Nvidia of recent because they gave the fx line not so great reviews. The truth hurts sometimes. But it will set you free................
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Anonymous
at 11:56 19/7/2003
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if u considure that 3.2 GHZ cpu with NV35 can run Doom 3 smooth, on high details ( theory ). Then by 2010 we should have reality. When was it, 1992 when wolfenstein 3D came, 1st 3D game. Well now its like 11 years and we done such huge progress. In 2004 3.6 GHZ xDR will be out, used in graphic cards, todays top speeds will double by next summer, maybe even triple. I must agree, its very expencive, but its tehnology and sooner or later there wount be much to fight about. + software does suck, Microsoft and Direct X , thats the unoptimized shit.
peace
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Anonymous
at 11:48 19/7/2003
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I used Nvidia Geforce4 MX, i was glad to have it. Now I have radeon 9700 pro. Speed difference is amazing, driver stability is amazing, everything rocks. Now all i hear and read bout nvidia is how loud their coolers are, how they fake their scores and what ever else.
Dont understand me wrong, without one there cant be another, if 1 of them claims the speed crow, other must take action fast.. its progress. But here i must agree, Nvidia is full of shit, f**k them. AMEN
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Anonymous
at 11:18 19/7/2003
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And Nvidia claiming..."it just wants end users to be aware of the risks of using them." Is total crap because that very Omega Web-site has disclaimers all over it stating this very point. That their are risks involved using their drivers. Nice try Nvidia.
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Tele
at 11:14 19/7/2003
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Nvidia moves to reassure world+dog on driversIs perhaps does an 180 degree u-turn a better phrase?
By INQUIRER staff: Saturday 19 July 2003, 11:48 THE CHAP who runs Driverheaven has had a letter from Nvidia in which it moves to clarify its position about third party drivers.
See Nvidia cracks down on third party driver development. The statement is on the Driverheaven site, but essentially Nvidia is saying that it was "reluctantly forced" to take the actions it did. And Nvidia said it's not "company policy" as to future third party drivers. It claims it promotes third party drivers and that it just wants end users to be aware of the risks of using them. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Total 360 turn from their original bullshit statements regarding Omega Drivers. And all of you said otherwise. Nvidia is full of shit. FULL OF IT. Like i said before, the bad press they recieved because of them doing this from the gaming community MADE them change thier views. It had nothing to do with copy-right infrigment or alterations of drivers. It was another power move Nvidia tried to pull and got burned by the very community that buys and supports it's products. Total hypocrites. This sounds exactly like the same shit like the 3dmarks fiasco. Retracted statements and bullshit.
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Anonymous
at 11:5 19/7/2003
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Nothing like rushing the card to regain the crown.... I hope its more then just a speed bump with better cooling.
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Anonymous
at 10:54 19/7/2003
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Woot bring on the fanboys to this article.
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Slim
at 10:17 19/7/2003
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Ben is right in many ways, he just exagerated. If they don't let games come out so they can fully optimize the current technology, then we will always be stuck buying newer cards.
And anyways, newer games are mostly crap, they are all hype, and graphics. If you remember Sundog for the Atari ST then you will know that older gems are truly better.
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Ali
at 7:15 19/7/2003
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Personally i like Nvidia BUT i think this competition between the two companies has some ups and downs for both. The extra competition is bringing us better products much faster, however, to do so, each hide technology from each other, slowing us down in that aspect. Also for people like me, i can't afford the ongoing increase in new graphics cards. Also at the moment, hardware is developing faster than software.
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ignatius
at 6:57 19/7/2003
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There is only one problem though, drivers. Both of these companies are pushing so fast that they have not bothered to examine their drivers as well as they normally should. As a result you have drivers with mirginal to serious flaws which leave users with problems that will not be resolved until the next driver comes out which could be a while. In addition they are putting so much work into boosting the speed that they probably have not looked entirely at how long the card will rielly last while running constantly at those speeds. I say they should at least make these cards so they stay stable and will not eventually burn out even if they are not being overclocked.
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FuX Ben
at 5:32 19/7/2003
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Ben,
I would like to say that you suck. Obviously the economy being down in the US hasn't overly affected the grahics industry. I say this because, WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY WASTE MONEY IF NOBODY WAS BUYING IT!!? Just because you want to play games on your beat up celeron and voodoo, doesn't mean the rest of us should not have good graphics. You see i bet you can barely run HL in 640x480. And if you can't do that. You can't really play any games buy atomic bomberman and maybe some old schoool police quest. You should have no problem running PQ at it's most awesome settings. You see ben, some of us like this thing called realism. Some of us when we shoot a guy in the head with a shock rifle from 100 yards away, some of us want to see their head explode and not have it be 2d pixels likee quake or HL. So in closing i would like to say this.just because YOU suck doesn't mean the REST OF US have to. Get it? Got it? GOOD. Stealths and TBirds forever!
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Dr Death
at 5:26 19/7/2003
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I personally believe that the speed race is not as close as it seems. You see, technically ati is already beating nvidia. Because when you combine the lack of performance and the cheating on benchmarks nvidia has done in the past, i believe this makes them a loser. I think ati is a winner because they don't lie. Who cares that every single time a new game comes out we have to get new drivers? And that sometimes those drivers ruin older games like half life and cs for all of us? I know i do not. Ati roxorz all of your boxorz.
This is for you Brettley
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Ben
at 4:48 19/7/2003
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The 3D-industry is becoming ridicilous. I don't wanna spend 500 € - 600 € on a graphics card which I know it will not be able to play the newest games on its best quality after 10 months.The market is moving to quick and if they don't stop with this speedwar the industry could sign its own end. There are bounderies when considering economical capabilities. In a bad economic climate such speedmoves aren't possible anymore. Sales will drop and the companies will not be able to invest as much in research as they did before. Not the cards should be improved, but instead the programmers who make the games should do more with less technology. Why did games like G-Police run at my Celeron 200 Mhz, 32 MB RAM, Voodoo 2? The games of today need 10-fold those qualifiactions to run at their best. Not the hardware but the software should be improved. That's my point of view. i'm not a technical genious, but Mac computers use 700 Mhz processors and run certain games as smooth as a 2 Ghz Intel machine. Maybe this isn't comparable for 100% but it is a thing you could start thinking about.
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Anonymous
at 4:12 19/7/2003
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ATI shoved a sniper rifle up Nvidia's ass, starting with their R9700PRO....
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Zakarumite
at 4:3 19/7/2003
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Talking about hardware is never boring....if you know what are talking about. :)It's good to campare ideias and tricks that many people do to their hardware, and share it with people that know less (so everyone may save some bucks). That's charity and filantropism. :P
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^-^
at 3:51 19/7/2003
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talking bout graphics cards is getting boring now. just be happy with what u got.
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Anonymous
at 3:11 19/7/2003
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do you not remember ati leaking the doom3 alpha? that p!ssed id off no end. doomIII is "the way its ment to be played" ie nvidia sponsored now. all that stuff bout no fsaa on nvdia & hl2 is bullsh!t thats ati sponsoring valve. hl2 is set to be next next big thing and with ati& valve partnered dont you think its abit odd that that valve are saying fsaa works on ati and not nvidia? even tho nearly every modern 3d games has working fsaa...
i cant wait to pirate hl2 and tell valve to shove fsaa up thier ass coz i can run at 1600x1200 on my nvidia.
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PeanuT
at 2:47 19/7/2003
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I might be wrong but i'd bet good money that both Doom3 AND HL2 are being built FOR ATI chips.Doom3 had that whole video showcase thing that was done in partnership with ATI, do you remember the 'Doom3 ATI' video? The one with the very first video shots of Doom3? Well a big deal was made about Doom3 being 'sided' with ATI then. And look at HL2 now. At E3 where that demo was played (err, who said it was just a video from HL2? I'm sorry, you are talking out of your arse), they did it on an ATI rig. At the end of the day, opinions are like assholes; everyone's got one. But I think that ATI looks to be leading the gaming troops at the moment. They just seem to be more in touch with the 'gamers' today, whereas nVidia look to be all about the money. They just seem more like a 'big company', maybe it's cos I can still remember the day they took over 3DFX. But, as usual, it'll be the young upstarts who win the day. Hoorah.
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Anonymous
at 2:18 19/7/2003
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God is on my side.... I just knew it!!!! ATI always has somethin' in her sleeves! ATI have good strategy... they introduce their chips on the last second!
well,think HL2 was ATI, and DOOMIII was Nvidia.
DOOMIII introduced itself a loooong time ago, and before a loooong time ago everyone said "ohhhhhh!!!! ahh!!!! another DOOM game!!!! weeee!!!! such good graphics!" and it got the best game of E3 tons of times, untill the last second, where HL2 introduced itself, and now everyone say "DOOMIII is shit, just old crap 2 year old technology... HL2 rocks!!!"
all because Nvidia don't know how to bring an audience and fans to their club, ATI do it faster, Nvidia doit longer.... ATI make their chips slower, because they think of everything before they introduce it. I didn't see any ATI card that had bugs on it... Nvidia had tons on each one of them....
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Anonymous
at 1:26 19/7/2003
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I also agree, let the "war" continue....we have nothing to loose. :) I still prefer Nvidia cards, (with a little overclock).lets say my geforce default speed where: Core--> 175 to 204
RAM --> 166 to 216 Although my GeForce 2 MX 400 it's PCI it stills deliver a great performance, in DVD's, games and such, and it wasn't no fan or heatsink. :P If you want to overclock your Nvidia card just click this link and download the file then run it. It will active the clock frequency tab on the Proprietys of your GeForce ou RIVA. Then do what you please. http://www.guru3d.com/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?coolbits.reg or visit www.guru3d.com GeForce 2 MX 400 ( 4ever )!!
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Xedster
at 0:51 19/7/2003
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man so major speed in these video cards ............ really either one will be good , and i'm sure we will all here about the thousands of benchmark's they'l do anyways... god luck to them my Geforce 2 MX 400 RULZ!!!!
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Anonymous
at 23:3 18/7/2003
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GO ATI! Good ole' Canadian quality. Nothing beats it.
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Sigma
at 22:29 18/7/2003
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Nvidia sucks compared to Ati and everyone knows that now.Ati Rules Over the Nvidiot Fools
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Anonymous
at 21:32 18/7/2003
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"Well, this really bites the big one. xbit is reporting that Valve developers have identified a bug in current DX9 hardware when using FSAA algorithms. It appears that there is a workaround for ATI hardware, but is almost impossible to fix for NVIDIA based graphics cards.Valve continued that this is a problem for any application that packs small textures into larger textures. The small textures will bleed into each other if you have multi-sample FSAA enabled.
Currently both leading graphics chips designers use multi-sampling or hybrid multi-sampling + super-sampling methods to for FSAA.
The developers of the legendary Half-Life game said that drivers are not likely to solve the problem, however, it still can be solved for graphics cards based on VPUs from ATI Technologies, such as RADEON 9500-, 9600-, 9700- and 9800-series. As for NVIDIA GeForce and GeForce FX-series, there are practically no chances to find a workaround, according to Valve."
That's a bitch for Nvidiai......
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Anonymous
at 21:28 18/7/2003
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Nvidia claimed it was impossible to get the results ATI is getting on 15nm die size. This is why they went to 13nm. And look what ATI has done. They just released the revised 9800pro with higher core and memory speeds. They are producing cards that have almost the same clock speeds as the fx line running on a smaller die size. That's amazing engineering. Plain and simple. Nividia said this could not happen. And it has.
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abcsam86
at 21:15 18/7/2003
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Wow did i mess up i got one of the 5600 ultr cards the one with the 350mghz core and not 400 sheeesh i think my old 8500 is a better card lol well any way after playing a few games BF1942 mostly i have found out that the FX and TI line of cards is really not good at all lines get panted all over. well i think im gonna sell this and get a 9800 when the new ATI card comes out and oh yeah 256 ram does nuthing for any game out right now
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Anonymous
at 20:53 18/7/2003
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How the f**k is ATI still competing with a 15 nm core fabrication, their engineers are amazing.
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Anonymous
at 20:51 18/7/2003
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And asshole. The NV35 is the 5900.
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Anonymous
at 20:51 18/7/2003
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are you a f**king idiot, both nvidia and ati gpu's are fully programable, this is the reason why ati has better image quality, their shaders are more complex than nvidia's.
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Timmy o' Tool
at 20:49 18/7/2003
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The 4800 and the 4200 beats the 5600 Ultra in most tests not using AA. The 5600 is a waste of money. The 5200 is plain shit. A true scam card for the unknowing fools. Just like the MX line of crap Nvidia was shoveling.
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Anonymous
at 20:47 18/7/2003
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"ATI cards cant produce as much graphics and other specials as the 5800 ultra and the 5900 ultra! its a fact! ATI just a bit faster. other than that ATI is rubbish. Nvidia cards are programable..."Are you a moron? Please tell all of us what advanced graphics the 5800, 5900 has over the 9700pro or the 9800pro? All cards are programable. This was all marketing hype to say one card is more programable then the other. And to let you know, ATI cards produce better image quality bar none. Better AA. Nvidia is still using gforce4 anti-alasing techniques. "Oh, and finally kids, its a FACT that many games are developed with nVidia cards in mind, even if that means that nVidia payed them a ton of $$. The difference is marginal, but its the TRUTH. Dont argue." That has been changing very rapidly since the 9700pro was released and the 5800 was a dud. And all this cheating crap and lower IQ from Nvidia cards. Things have changed so drastically over the past year....
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Anonymous
at 20:27 18/7/2003
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nvidia might have a somewhat faster fill-rate, but ATi has better looking graphics at any angle. Also the All-In-Wonder is tha SHIZZ too!!
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lonewolf
at 19:59 18/7/2003
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Please dont use all caps.Im glad to see some semi-ok conversations going on here, not just nVidia/ATi rules or stuff. Remember that its not about ure benchmark tests, its about how fast and how well your games play at 1600x1200. thats all that really matters. 3dMark is good for comparing SYSTEMS in a magazine or website, but from one generation of cards to the next (6 mo or less), its not gonna do a whole lot. but hey, if it means high end cards are gonna come down fast, pump out the cards guys! Oh, and finally kids, its a FACT that many games are developed with nVidia cards in mind, even if that means that nVidia payed them a ton of $$. The difference is marginal, but its the TRUTH. Dont argue.
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Anonymous
at 18:50 18/7/2003
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whoa im suprised this hasnt turned into another pathetic brawl between ati and nvidia nazis
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DragonX
at 18:29 18/7/2003
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heh, new cards!!!, dam i was going to buy the 9800 pro 3 days ago but didnt had the 400+ dollars guess ill wait for the next card... for the guy that said that 5800 card is greater i pity you, the 5800 was one of the greates disapointments on the card indutry, having so much power and yet very low performance. its a fact that 5900 is an awesome card and that beats in a lot of ways the 9800 pro even by a little, but the 5800 was a laugh so don start commenting on shit, and as the last post, stop saying who is best, both are tremedously good companies qand both have quality cards, but not standing in either one means to be able ot accept ati had shitty drivers and are improving adn that both companies have good and bad cards.
one thing i need to ask to anyone, does the GeForce 4 Ti4800 card beat the hell out of the Fx5600?? since the performance of 5200 and 5600 is a joke to me but saw that fx5600 had 88million vertices and newly geforce4 produced 128 or so millions.
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Anonymous
at 18:20 18/7/2003
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i'll judge those games when the come out but as far as the gaphics card war goes, i got my 9700pro so i dont care for awhile.
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Anonymous
at 18:5 18/7/2003
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quite frankly, i would hope that most of you arent gonna start another frigging 'OMFG nVidia is better; NO ATi is better'. Dont be pathetic.now i know some of you are nVidia Humpers, but in the end, would you give a flying scrotum if you are running Half-Life 2 at 100fps (1600x1200x32, with 6xFSAA and 16xAF) on a 5900 Ultra, nv40, 9800 pro, or Loki; IMO i wouldnt give a shit get your acts together, it doesnt really matter that much does it? this is ****** signing out
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Anonymous
at 18:2 18/7/2003
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ugh, I'm getting sick of this.
f**kin new cards every 3 months now.
by the time those new cards are released, the ATi 9800pro and 5800fx will be outdated. Prices are going higher on new cards at release and gotta wait longer now for them to actually drop in price. When the ATi Radeon 8500 first came out, I went out and got it. In 3 months after I got it, it was considered outdated. I use to care about this kinda stuff, but now, I just gave up on upgrading my comp or buying a new a comp. It's not the fact that I don't have money cause I do but it's ridiclouis now and pointless for just playing games. Look, another AngryBot who has been brain-washed into believeing that HL has a good story and good physics. HL has mod-ability but thats the only thing going for it.
Dude, HL2 uses scanned-textures and if you know what scanned textures are, you will that scanned textures are shit. That video you saw for HL2 with the dune buggy is not actual gameplay.
It's just a video that will be in HL2.
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AngryBot
at 17:12 18/7/2003
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Re: Anonymous @ 16:35 18/7/2003
Yeah, because the physics, story-line, and mod-ability, among other things in HL2 will be such a huge disappointment. Dumbass.
Far Cry will be awesome too. DOOM 3 will likely be cool graphics and nothing more.
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Anonymous
at 16:35 18/7/2003
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half life 2 will not impress. the game isnt going to be that great. now check out the game Far Cry, and you just might cry at the new Pollybumpmapping technology. I am telling, this game will be up there with Doom 3. and way above half life 2go to www.crytek.com and see the technology. unbelievable detail. CGI graphics.
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Wyatt
at 15:37 18/7/2003
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LOL who cares... Hey the thing I like about this is the Prices will continue to drop.. It's back and forth back and forth... I like both companies.. I really dont care who is the speed king anymore.. THey are bOTH EXTREMELY well graphics cards. Since I havent upgraded since GeForce 4 Ti4600 I look forward to any advancements that make 9800 pro or 5900 ultra drop. That just brings out joy in me. I am tired of everybody whining saying how this company is soo much better than this one. I actually wouldnt mind if another company jumped in the race. Im waiting for Nv40 and ATIs Next one.. This will be good timing for DOOM 3 and Half Life 2.
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-=V3rT0=-
at 15:26 18/7/2003
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... the nv35 is not the FX 5900! and by the way nvidia has the fastest memory speeds,up to 1GHz and DDR 2
thats the 5800 ultra by Asus.
ATI cards cant produce as much graphics and other specials as the 5800 ultra and the 5900 ultra! its a fact! ATI just a bit faster. other than that ATI is rubbish. Nvidia cards are programable...no what that means?. it works with a wider selection of games = more.
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Anonymous
at 15:5 18/7/2003
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It's not like the performance crown went exclusively to the nv35 anyways. Both the 9800pro and the 5900 Ultra are so close in performance they are very similar. If anything, they both share the performance crown. Because how can you say Nvidia has the crown alone when it's iq is not as good as ATI's and the speed difference between the 2 is minimal at best. Some games running faster on the 5900, some games running faster on the 9800pro.
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Psilaxs
at 14:55 18/7/2003
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This is fantastic. Both companies, feircly trying to out pace the other one, pushing technology ahead faster and faster and lowering prices.I love it. I am an ATI fan, but nVidia is a great company with great products as well. Cheers to the consumers.
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